[X] My Assistant

Please find in the next posts some infos from guides, just to serve as a FAQ


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2021-04-22: Advice for new players: Persistent or Isekai?

Currently, most experts seem to agree that it is the best strategy to start in Persistent hentaiverse first. It's possible to play in PFUDOR almost from the start. But you can also work your way up through the difficulties. Change your gear often, experiment with different styles, and use/slot your ability points and primary attribute points. Do the first run of any arena on lower difficulty, you don't want to die because then you won't unlock the next arena.

It could be an interesting strategy to first test the game in ISEKAI mode. In isekai, you could be able to collect a complete equipment set, soulfused, within a season. That will then be transferred to your normal 'persistent' HV at the end of the season. ISKEAI season runs 6 months, and starts in July and December every year. You can start at any moment though.

Disussion: isekai could be used to get decent starter gear in persistent, because in isekai you can get one or even two peerless equipments every season, you will get magnificents and a couple of legendary from the shrine, and you have max drop training and some hath perks active without cost. You need to wait up to 6 months before you get the gear in persistent, though. Most experts feel that that is too long.


This post has been edited by Noni: Apr 23 2021, 15:45

In summary and Conclusion:

Conclusion: Increase in Max Spirit = Increase in Spirit Damage

Thank you DJNoni.

Conclusion:
Adding STR has no use for mages what so ever. Spirit shield will consume more Spirit if max base spirit is higher. The formula in the wiki is incorrect.

Data & Analysis
With STR = 0 I had about 1905 max spirit
With STR = 356 I have 2108 max spirit
this is an increase of about 10.5%

With STR = 0 my spirit shield did the following:
Average SS conversion rate = 0.01262

With STR = 356 my spirit shield did the following:
Average SS conversion rate = 0.01386

Increase in Spirit Shield conversion rate = 9.8%

Increase in Max Base Spirit = Increase in Spirit Damage

I think the formula in the wiki is correct but the terminology is different, leading to some confusion. From my months old post in the other Ask the Experts thread:

Hmm, reading the link, here is the spirit shield formula to study:

Spirit Damage = Base_SP * SS_AP_Damage * MIN( (Damage - Max_HP * SS_AP_Damage) / (Max_HP * SS_AP_Damage * 3) , 1)
(SS_AP_Damage = percentage of damage required for Spirit shield to kick in)

So higher ability upgrades of spirit shield do make the spirit drain more efficient, but only for gargantuan hits that reach a spirit damage cap. In that case, the formula reduces to:

Spirit Damage = Base_SP * SS_AP_Damage

In the majority of cases, the formula instead reduces to:

Spirit Damage / Prevented HP Damage = Base_SP / Max_HP * 3
(Prevented HP Damage = Damage - Max_HP * SS_AP_Damage)

Therefore spirit damage efficiency is independent of the upgrade level of spirit shield. In my case the the SP/HP conversion ratio is 500 / 45,000 = 1.1% which matches what I experience.

While higher base spirit doesn't help a mage, it doesn't seem to hurt either. So then we come to the question of the spirit regen formula that decondelite pointed out. I'm not sure what it is.

I think the formula in the wiki is correct but the terminology is different, leading to some confusion. From my months old post in the other Ask the Experts thread:
While higher base spirit doesn't help a mage, it doesn't seem to hurt either. So then we come to the question of the spirit regen formula that decondelite pointed out. I'm not sure what it is.

Regen is same conclusion: no difference for mage, according to sickentide:

depends whether sp in your calculation stands for base (determined by stats) or max (with spirit tank) spirit, you get these possible cases:

CODE

base sp = max sp = 500
spark triggered -> sp = sp - sp * 0.5 = 250
sd restore 250 sp in n turns

base sp = max sp = 1000
spark triggered -> sp = sp - sp * 0.5 = 500
sd restore 500 sp in n turns

CODE

base sp = max sp = 500
spark triggered -> sp = sp - sp * 0.5 = 250
sd restore 250 sp in n turns

max sp = 1000, base sp = 500
spark triggered -> sp = max sp - base sp * 0.5 = 750
sd restore 500 sp in 2n turns

so there is neither harm nor benefit in raising base spirit and raising max spirit lets you get more sparks out of a full spirit bar while retaining the same regeneration rate relative to a single spark

So there are several benefits to raising max spirit via Spirit Tank ability. Nearly everything else that costs SP is derived in price from base spirit.

Two exceptions seem to exist: Spirit point cost to maintain Spirit Stance (1 per turn) and Spirit Elixir, which raises current spirit to max spirit.

Spark of Life, Spirit Shield, Spirit Potion, Spirit Draught, and the regen portion of Spirit Elixir are all based on base Spirit value. Making raising/lower base spirit entirely useless for all players in those contexts. In contrast, raising max spirit creates a useful gap of spirit points so that those base-spirit prices can be paid a bit more.

Since Spirit Stance is far more limited by OC supply than Spirit Supply, that price seems pretty negligible. But, technically, higher base spirit lets you pay the spirit cost of Spirit Stance for a longer period of time. There is an actual change in the ratio of price and ability to pay.

The initial full-fill of spirit due to using a Spirit Elixir is based off of max spirit rather than base. But the value of using one is not increased by raising base spirit, since every other significant interaction with spirit points is based on base spirit.

So base spirit only exists mechanically because it has to. Rasising "useless" stats to your build, even if dirt cheap, has no effect on your character other than to make Spirit Stance relatively cheaper. I think even one more point of a useful stat (such as STR, INT, or END) is the better choice. Doesn't matter if 350 STR/INT/AGI is super cheap, it gives you nothing. So don't do it.

I think we can pretty firmly say this is a design flaw.

I think we can pretty firmly say this is a design flaw.

You mean like the fact that having a higher speed as 1H let you fight worse in actual killing speed? Because let us be honest in the end this doesnt make sense.

You mean like the fact that having a higher speed as 1H let you fight worse in actual killing speed? Because let us be honest in the end this doesnt make sense.

While there are some loose similarities between those two things, they're not the same. I feel like they're enough different situations to make it not reasonable to lump them together.

Raising attack speed does exactly what it is supposed to: you go faster relative to enemies, they get less attacks against you. This makes you take less attacks over time, and keeps you alive.

1h due to shield and high mitigations values this less. Other melee builds and mages value speed because they don't have as many defenses as 1h+heavy.

The culprit for it being "worse" rather than "not as good" is 1h's counterattack mechanic. Because that relies on the enemy attacking you, it happens more often if the opponent makes more attacks. So stunning your opponent, raising your speed, and using certain deprecating spells like sleep or mag net will all reduce how many times the enemy attacks you. Which reduces how many counter attacks you make, which reduces some of your offense.

So, it is a fairly complicated set of mechanics that all happen to produce that result. I think that is OK for a design, since you can learn about that and make choices to build your character. Indeed, using heavy armor with higher burden than shade armor is one such build choice.

This is a good design situation because it gives players more options that are mostly fun.

In contrast, the Spirit stat is a very basic part of the game, and all classes have a spirit stat. When you raise one of these basic stats, you get more "fuel." Raising END gives you more HP. Raising WIS gives you more MP.

You can also take Vigorous Vitality to raise base HP and this is better than HP Tank which raises max HP. Because of the way different things interact with HP. For example, the amount of damage enemy attacks do are not increased simply because you increase base HP.

Effluent Ether raises your base MP. Again, this is strictly an advantage. You get more MP to cast spells with. Your spells don't increase in MP cost when you buy this perk.

Suffusive Spirit is the most expensive of these three abilities. It should be the best! It costs a whopping 1k Hath. All it does is let you use Spirit Stance for a little longer, assuming you don't run out of OC first anyway. Unlike the other two "fuel" stats, your main costs of spirit do get increased when you take this perk(SoL/SS). It has no drawback, but it certainly isn't an advantage.

If there was some kind of fun use for this design choice, it might be still a good one. But it really just restricts choices. You can build your Mage with all experience dumped into INT/WIS/END/AGI/DEX. You might decide that the benefits of some of these stats are not good, or you might decide they are good. You have choices. STR does nothing for you because raising base spirit is useless. You waste experience that could be spent on something helpful in some way. If raising base spirit had a use, then even STR would be a decision to make that could improve your build or not, but you have an option that is maybe worth considering.

That's still kind of a weak "benefit/choice" description. More ideal would be, let's say you could add a new playstyle to the game which treated Spirit Points the way mage treats MP. If base spirit was the base of their damage (but couldn't really be raised with gear the way ADB and MDB/EDB can). Like, imagine some sort of mystic or necromancer that summons spirits and bargains with them to do their bidding in combat.

Since everything else for melee and mages doesn't care about base spirit, but this build does care about it, then the design flaw would not matter. You'd still have a fun choice you could play if you wanted to, and make use of the mechanics.

Stats that benefit some playstyles but not others are OK design. Stats that slightly harm your character (so you should avoid them) are fine too. As long as some part of the game gets to play with the stats and find them useful. The way base spirit works now, nobody does. It's useless for everyone, and serve no boost to fun for anyone. That's what makes it a design flaw.

A question for the experts here who remember how it was to play at lower levels :

after having got Postage Paid and IA 1 & 2, what other Perk is more useful to aim to next (having to choose between the most economical) ?

Thanks for replies, especially for logically explained ones

Well, after those i got VV, to increase my survivability, for me it wörked.

Well, after those i got VV, to increase my survivability, for me it wörked.

i second this.

for heavy ╰(*´︶`*)╯ VV for more tanking power.

for non-heavy C= C= C= C= C=┌(;・ω・)┘ IA3 because SoL, Haste and Shadow Veil are kinda expensive, specially at your level / proficiency. SS is debatable and you certainly don't need to auto-cast the cheap and long lasting Protection.

This post has been edited by reality_marble: Dec 27 2017, 03:13

due to the lack of feedbacks about the axe question, i felt like doing a quick Rapier vs. Axe comparison. remembering to play the proper day of the week was a pain, but whatever. at least i unlocked some mob slots.

this is the Rapier: Legendary Arctic Rapier of Slaughter (Hollowforged, Butcher Lv.4, Fatality Lv.5)

and this is the Axe: Legendary Hallowed Axe of Slaughter (Hollowforged, Butcher Lv.5, Fatality Lv.3, Overpower Lv.1)


relevant stats:

CODE

            | axe           | rapier
---------------------------------------------
ADB         | 10506         |  9687
ACC         |   181.9       |   191.8
Crit        |    44.2 / +66 |    44.3 / +70
Speed       |     1.8       |     2.5
            |               |
HP          | 30656         | 30656
MP          |  2149         |  2149
SP          |  1780         |  1787
            |               |
PMI         |    76.5       |    76.6
MMI         |    74.8       |    74.8
Evade       |     2.7       |     6.2
Block       |    66.3       |    66.3
Parry       |    43.8       |    59.2
Resist      |    21.6       |    21.6
            |               |
BUR         |    69.6       |    62.7
            |               |
STR         |  1150         |  1121
DEX         |  1094         |  1129
AGI         |   579         |   593
END         |   947         |   947
INT         |   373         |   373
WIS         |   540         |   540
            |               |
1H prof     |   444         |   444
Heavy prof  |   444         |   444

now, weapons have different strikes - Axe in particular has quite a convenient one against SGs. therefore, i did comparisons both with vanilla weapons and with infusions (Holy for Rapier and Cold for Axe, so they ended with the same strike combos).
comparison was run under the same conditions, namely:
- IA3: Spark, Protection, Spirit Shield; Heartseeker and Regen always on
- MP/SP Draught/Potions casted only when bars were low
- no OFC, if not at last level of Eve, SG1 and SG2 arenas
- Spirit Stance always on
- Imperil on SGs only (Better Imperil ability maxed)

results, expressed in number of turns and riddles:

CODE

       |  Rapier  |  Axe     | Holy Rap | Cold Axe
--------------------------------------------------
Day    | Thursday | Monday   | Thursday | Tuesday
--------------------------------------------------
PF Eve | 1895 (0) | 2082 (1) | 1783 (2) | 1955 (1)
PF T&T | 2150 (1) | 2375 (0) | 2065 (0) | 2233 (1)
PF SG1 | 2795 (1) | 2800 (2) | 2651 (1) | 2696 (3)
PF SG2 | 3810 (2) | 3732 (0) | 3477 (1) | 3475 (1)
PF DWD | 6461 (1) | 6407 (1) | 5937 (0) | 6090 (2)

gameplay was something like: whack-whack-whack. in case of SGs, i started by imperiling each of them (and them alone), then fondled them throughly and let the small fry suicide on the shield. usually Axe 1H let less survivors than Rapier 1H, but killing SGs was a bit slower.
i didn't even use a BW-oriented gameplay, so at first i thought an Axe could actually be more efficient than a Rapier, at least against SGs.
with the same strikes, it seems evident the initial advantage was due essentially to the Holy strike.
a couple of Cures on the longest quests (especially when equipped with the Axe), but nothing particular.


conclusions: Axes are viable, at least at lv430-ish, on arenas and with this levels of forging. if nothing else, they aren't *so* worse than a rapier, albeit being way cheaper. they may be even better when highly forged, who knows. personally i'd suggest one for a high-level who isn't able to find a proper Rapier, but i wouldn't suggest them to play GFs (possibly even IWs) due to the lower Parry, hence the lower amount of Counters.
in such cases, i think Rapiers may still be the best all-around kind of weapon. if someone wants to try Shortswords, feel free.

This post has been edited by Scremaz: Dec 27 2017, 08:44

Now we have all these game heads tweaking on their personas daily.

Saying a tweak here, a removal here.. and things work really well.

I think it's time we put these personas on the streets and see what they will do.

I sy we are past due................... roadshoe.

Well, after those i got VV, to increase my survivability, for me it wörked.

i second this.

for heavy VV for more tanking power.

for non-heavy IA3 because SoL, Haste and Shadow Veil are kinda expensive, specially at your level / proficiency. SS is debatable and you certainly don't need to auto-cast the cheap and long lasting Protection.

Thank you all I thought of VV, but 10% didn't seem to me something that could change much; and my HP & survivabilty with 1H/2H is already better then other styles, so I'd thought it useful more in other styles, but that is contrary to what Marble says and if he says so must have his reasons.

I also thought about Soul Catcher, because I have already used all my soul frags to soulfuse lower items; but now I got some Mags (both equip and weapon) very near my lvl that I'd love to soulfuse (I could stay with them for a lot of levels if they scale, saving on equip. changing).
I try to do as much RE as possible to farm frags, but I have calculated then I'd need almost 8 month to farm enough; while I could cut that time almost in half with Soul Catcher, since it gives me frags even in days I cannot play for REs (and I'd hate to have to buy frags from Bazaar).

IA3 seems less useful to me, at least for the moment, and I don't have SS yet; on the other hand, it costs 250 Haths instead of 500 for Catcher, so I'm a little uncertain about my next step.

Iìll have to ponder

Thans again to all who amswered, I appreciate the time you dedicated to me !

...

Nah, Soul Catcher is useless.
Get IA3 or VV or save up for Tokenizer1 i guess.

You can safely skip all those HP/MP/SP perks, things like Demon Duality I, Evil Enchantress, Dark Descent, Long Gone Before Daylight, Extra Strength Formula and Tokenizer I are more important.

For my part I appreciate Soul Catcher quite a lot, because it self-pays within a year and ensures fragments even when I don't play. But then as usual there's always a smart guy who says that all it takes is to do 12 REs everyday.

You can safely skip all those HP/MP/SP perks, things like Demon Duality I, Evil Enchantress, Dark Descent, Long Gone Before Daylight, Extra Strength Formula and Tokenizer I are more important.

For my part I appreciate Soul Catcher quite a lot, because it self-pays within a year and ensures fragments even when I don't play. But then as usual there's always a smart guy who says that all it takes is to do 12 REs everyday.

I can understand the importance of Dark Descent & Long Gone Before Daylight to hi lvl player, but I don't use EDs and I don't (still) reforge thing 70+ times like someone does (no names ), so there's no payoff for me there. As for Extra Strength , at the moment I have just 3 monsters PL nearing 100 so is not really an issue right now; if they become too expensive, I could just let them die slowly i guess.

DDI is too expensive for me right now. Evil Enchantress is more interesting, but still ... 1000 H , I could get IA3 + VV ans still have something left ! (Not to mention how much time it'd take me to reach 1000 H).

I'm surprised noone mentioned Resplendent Regeneration, is it so unimportant in battles ?

Perfectly useless. All it does is boost the natural regeneration of mana and spirit. It used to be a tad more useful back when we still had HP MP and SP outside of battle and they needed to regenerate slowly.

Perfectly useless. All it does is boost the natural regeneration of mana and spirit. It used to be a tad more useful back when we still had HP MP and SP outside of battle and they needed to regenerate slowly.

I forgot about that nerf to RR. I use to really like that Perk.

Luckily we had the full warranty on it.

When they broke it in half, they let us keep both halves.

Perfectly useless. All it does is boost the natural regeneration of mana and spirit. It used to be a tad more useful back when we still had HP MP and SP outside of battle and they needed to regenerate slowly.

OK, thanks. Then I think I'll go for IA3. After that, in a still unfatomable future , there will be a head-to-head match Soul Catcher vs. VV (but I already swing towards Catcher).

Thanks to all.

Luckily we had the full warranty on it.

When they broke it in half, they let us keep both halves.

I love your humor

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Soul Catcher is literally equal to the soul fragments of 2 REs a day.
Think if it's worth all those HatHs to you.